I wish I had a transcript of the last 20 minutes of class from Wednesday's class. I am not sure if I heard Dr. Jensen correctly or not.
1) I am one who thinks the Holy Scriptures transcends all cultures and times--that is the power of the gospel. I would argue that only a little of the New Testament--in light of the fulfillment of the Old Testament through Jesus Christ--is not applicable to today. (the hair issue and women in ministry being a couple on the short list) We are called to transform culture to Christ's glory.
2) I do think that the Bible offers us a Biblical worldview without making us sacrifice progress/advancement in technology or science. It is these very advancements that strengthens my Christian/Biblical worldview. Just because I think the Bible teaches that we humans have immortal spirits/souls, does not mean that I can't enjoy Science Fiction or that discovery of extraterrestial life/creation of cyborgs will shake my faith. Quite the contrary actually.
3) I believe this rational, Christian, Biblical worldview is far superior to any worldview that comes from a rational, secular, philosophical worldview. (I am NOT saying that Christians can't be philosophical!!)
My question now is this: if materialists deny that humans have an eternal spirit/soul, this does not necessarily mean that they deny the existence of the spiritual world all together, does it? (angels, demons, spiritual warfare, etc.). To me, that is another argument for the eternal soul. My studying the whole scripture and heeding Christ's own words made me switch from materialism to dualism years ago. Of course, I will be the first to say that our salvation is not dependent on dualism/materialist argument! Praise the Lord for that!
Consequently, in response to the other posts, paranormal is spiritual warfare in my opinion. We are called to test spirits. Unfortunately, most Christians are ignorant when it comes to spiritual warfare, but others go too far to the other extreme and see a demon under every rock.
I will stop now, since I tend to ramble when I am out of my area of chemistry/biology, and I tend to show my own ignorance too much...
1) I am one who thinks the Holy Scriptures transcends all cultures and times--that is the power of the gospel. I would argue that only a little of the New Testament--in light of the fulfillment of the Old Testament through Jesus Christ--is not applicable to today. (the hair issue and women in ministry being a couple on the short list) We are called to transform culture to Christ's glory.
2) I do think that the Bible offers us a Biblical worldview without making us sacrifice progress/advancement in technology or science. It is these very advancements that strengthens my Christian/Biblical worldview. Just because I think the Bible teaches that we humans have immortal spirits/souls, does not mean that I can't enjoy Science Fiction or that discovery of extraterrestial life/creation of cyborgs will shake my faith. Quite the contrary actually.
3) I believe this rational, Christian, Biblical worldview is far superior to any worldview that comes from a rational, secular, philosophical worldview. (I am NOT saying that Christians can't be philosophical!!)
My question now is this: if materialists deny that humans have an eternal spirit/soul, this does not necessarily mean that they deny the existence of the spiritual world all together, does it? (angels, demons, spiritual warfare, etc.). To me, that is another argument for the eternal soul. My studying the whole scripture and heeding Christ's own words made me switch from materialism to dualism years ago. Of course, I will be the first to say that our salvation is not dependent on dualism/materialist argument! Praise the Lord for that!
Consequently, in response to the other posts, paranormal is spiritual warfare in my opinion. We are called to test spirits. Unfortunately, most Christians are ignorant when it comes to spiritual warfare, but others go too far to the other extreme and see a demon under every rock.
I will stop now, since I tend to ramble when I am out of my area of chemistry/biology, and I tend to show my own ignorance too much...
posted by G'Ran at 7:40 AM
3 Comments:
A brief reply to only one of the issues you raise here: Of course, some materialists don't believe anything immaterial exists, in which case they're atheists or worship a material god. But for those of us who believe in God, the dualism/materialism debate is only about the nature of human beings, not about the whole universe. A Christian materialist thinks that we are marvelously intricate physical organisms. And so of course we're mortal. But after death we'll be resurrected. Some Christian materialists believe in the full realm of angels and demons and may subscribe to the spiritual warfare theology you mention. Others don't (and not all Christian dualists buy into the spiritual warfare model, either).
So, I'd distinguish the following:
1. whether you have a dualist or physicalist view of human beings,
2. whether you believe in God (and, specifically, the God of the Christian Scriptures) or not,
and
3. whether you believe in angels and demons (and what view you have of their role in human life).
These are logically distinct issues. Of course, you may believe that all three are taught in Scripture, and so for you they hang together for that reason. Some other folks will disagree with you. But being a materialist about human beings doesn't seem to commit you to any particular answer about God or any other supernatural phenomena.
More on other matters later, perhaps.
I'm probably about to reveal to everyone exactly how dumb I am. Not that I'd kept that completely hidden before now, but this will really be a doozy. I agree with Randy VP about the angels and demons belief being kind of suggestive in terms of whether or not it makes sense to believe in human souls. One of the book's arguments against dualism was that something non-physical cannot possibly affect something physical. And yet, if that was the case, how could God, or the Holy Spirit if you prefer, affect change in the world? God is a non-physical being. If non-physical beings have no interaction with physical beings, then God has no control in the world and is basically helpless. Useless.
Maybe the laws of physics are incomplete. Maybe there's a kind of magic (for lack of a better term) about it that hasn't been discovered yet.
This is a bit off topic and is in response to what G'ran said in the 1st point (about women in ministry or no). This is obviously a heated topic and many views exist. It is even difficult to know what the Bible is "really saying" about women, for so many references are ambiguous due to lack of punctuation or the Greek word used. I think this is an interesting article on the topic:
http://www.mainstreambaptists.org/
mob/woman_pastor.htm
The author, among other points, humbly brings up how Scripture never limited the Spirit's gifts to just men, nor limited the Spirit only working through men.
He also speaks of how the verses that women should remain "silent" at church and not speak could have been "temporary" verses (if you will) for it appears (to the author) that that church (that specific church) was having problems at the time. He compares the rule that women should remain silent to a "martial law" a temporary law.
Whether he is speaking truth, I am not sure. The author even states he is not sure.
I guess what I'm saying is perhaps the NT is still applicable today in terms of women in ministry.
I am no expert, and I realize everything I have just said may be false. I struggle with this because if "Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever" why would his desires for women and their roles change over time? Perhaps they haven't. After all, Jesus broke many customs of the time in the way he treated women (the above article mentions them).
Sorry for being so windy :)
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